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Post by Go Plainedge! on Mar 8, 2006 20:59:38 GMT -5
Post your thoughts on tonight's meeting here. I will give mine once I organize my notes.
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Post by thewildrover on Mar 8, 2006 21:52:45 GMT -5
My initial thoughts: Extremely well attended in spite of the poor promotion. Heartening after the poor showings at the board meetings. (Sorry the opportunity passed to promote next Tuesdays meeting with such a large crowd there, just thought of that ) Many excellent questions posed. A few concrete answers, more "we're looking into that" answers, but to be fair, they are somewhat early in the process and they stated there would be more meetings. As for the whole idea....I have to let that sit in my craw for a while.......I do like the idea of 2 state of the art, brand new playgrounds for our kids to enjoy...and the turf fields are a long term plus......but is the exchange rate worth it?...And the hidden costs that no-one can see?...Cant answer for those yet. See you March 14th ITS ABOUT THE KIDS!
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Post by elphaba65 on Mar 9, 2006 0:05:28 GMT -5
I would have expected a lot more people to attend for such an important topic... especially all of the BOE members.
Some very good questions, especially the one asking if the money we save on school taxes would shift to our town taxes. Also, concerns from residents who live on the blocks adjacent to the school about parking and lights on the fields. (No lights would be put up but no commitment about restricting parking.)
Andy Rothstein from TOB (and also a Plainedge resident)stated that the town would re-do the Packard fields with artificial turf, use the gym and the wing in front of the building for community recreational activities, and use the 2nd & 3rd floors for offices. Plainedge teams would have 1st priority in using the fields, and the TOB would take over the scheduling, which is currently done by the Plainedge Athletic Director. They will expand the parking without taking away any field space.
Still to be determined: a) the market value of the building (an appraisal is being done at a cost of approx. $10K) which will determine how much money the district gets along with the Picken building; b) how much money is needed to upgrade the Picken building, i.e. new windows, roof, etc.; c) what will be done with the money received - give back some to taxpayers? put in a capital reserve fund?
A cost savings of $40K would result if the district moves the bus maintenance facility from the Levittown garage (which we rent) to Picken.
A lot of ideas were tossed out and not all could be answered at this preliminary stage. Dr. Richman stated there would be several more months of investigating and additional meetings for community involvement before the proposition is presented to the residents for a vote.
Some residents expressed their dissatisfaction that this meeting was not publicized better. Andy R. stated that the TOB would help advertise the next meeting to insure all residents have an opportunity to be heard.
Suggest that if people cannot attend, they give questions to their friends/neighbors for the next meeting.
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Post by delilah on Mar 9, 2006 8:10:21 GMT -5
I want to give this swap the attention it deserves. The idea has merit. We need all the information as well as an EPA soil test that proves the area is okay for Kids (have you ever seen what they store over there) I care deeply about the soil test. Also on my mind is this: Elphaba wrote: Still to be determined: a) the market value of the building (an appraisal is being done at a cost of approx. $10K) which will determine how much money the district gets along with the Picken building; b) how much money is needed to upgrade the Picken building, i.e. new windows, roof, etc.; c) what will be done with the money received - give back some to taxpayers? put in a capital reserve fund? I got a little chuckle out of this, What happend to the PACKARD CAPITAL RESERVE FUND??? did it go to fix anything? did it go to back to taxpayers??? Can somebody tell me where that 990,000 went?? I was around way back when it was created and that money had "Restrictions" it could only be used for capital Improvment or be returned... We were promised. Well can anyone tell me WHERE DID THE MONEY GO? $990,000 thats a lot of roof and windows. I am not yelling at you Elphaba, just trying to understand why and how the Packard Fund is gone.. when none of it went to fix Packard in any way.
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Post by Go Plainedge! on Mar 9, 2006 9:33:35 GMT -5
ok....here are my notes. If any one has something different, let us know. - There were about 125 people present (a rough scanning count done on my part)
- For those keeping score: The BOE members that were present (that I saw) were Rich Mallow, Loretta Giardina, Frank Presuto and Kathy Flanagan. They mostly stayed in the back.
According to Mr. Richman - trying hard to paint a pretty picture and sell this idea to the community
- Pickens will not be used as a school at first.
- This deal will secure 5.5 acres of property for the district. But Packard has more land - so what?
- Pickens will cost half the amount to maintain - we have yet to see any proof of this as far as estimated cost of operation. He claims that Packard cosst $200k a year. So does pickens cost $100k?
- He believes Picken is already built out so it's more rentable than Packard. Packard would require too much money for a build out. But what if pickens needs to be used as a school - isn't what this is really about? What would it cost to make it into a school?
- We would save $40k per year from refueling and repairs at Levittown. With a $57mm budget. This is an insignificant savings and should not be used as an advantage
- $10k has been approved by the BOE to do an engineers report. People were a bit upset with this money being "found" at this point in time.
- The District would hold the TOB liable if (sometime down the road) environmental issues came up.
According to Andy and the TOB
- ALL Plainedge sports would have first use of the field over any other Town or sports program
- Town Hall South would move it's offices (an a few other offices) to Packard. NO trucks would be moved there. The trucks would be directed elsewhere.
- The TOB would be involved in making the community aware of future meetings. Many complained that if they didn't have kids in school or access to a computer, they didn't get notified of the meeting.
- The TOB said no drug or alcohol treatment programs would take place at Packard
- The TOB is not clear how the field and build out of Packard will get paid for. Andy was a bit hesitant to mention an "increase the taxes" comment. That hesitation said a lot to me.
- The deal would have (in writing) a clause that this land can not be sold and developed on, no matter who the TOB Supervisor is.
Personally, I'm far from sold on this deal. I'm failing to see how this really benefits us at this point in time. We have reserve fund money and bond money. Use that money for the repairs on the buildings as needed. There is a space issue in the schools now. I have a gut feeling that it will get worse and 10 years from now, we'll be cursing these moves. I agree that the property should NOT be sold. Perhaps through further meetings and obtaining ACCURATE information as to ALL of the costs (cash received, trade values, build out and repair cost analysis, etc), I could give a better opinion. If I had to vote tomorrow - it would be NO. BUT, I realize this is in the very early stages of consideration.
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Post by justfacts on Mar 9, 2006 9:48:27 GMT -5
Thanks to all for sharing your cogent comments!
You are doing a great service for this community by doing so!
Thanks again!
Ed
P.S. Since this is such a vital topic, and it has been recognized by the BOE and the Administration that meetings at the District facilities are often not well attended, doesn't that make for a strong reason to have video conferenced and recorded this, and all future, meetings on this topic?
It was done for the "Meet your Candidate Night" - is this subject any less important for all to be able to review?
Doing so would also provide for historical "look back" recordings of the progresses and changes made as this intricate topic develops. That would eliminate a lot of mis-perceptions along the way.
Ed
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Post by Go Plainedge! on Mar 9, 2006 10:04:39 GMT -5
Doing so would also provide for historical "look back" recordings of the progresses and changes made as this intricate topic develops. That would eliminate a lot of mis-perceptions along the way.Ed HUH? That would mean that they would be on record and wouldn't be able to change their story. ...sorry I just couldn't resist.
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Post by gopybl on Mar 9, 2006 10:22:31 GMT -5
Go Plainedge....That was an excellent synopsis of last night's meeting. I think the main atttraction from the stand point of the Board of Ed is the following:
1) A building which is geographocally more appealing to a potential tenant since it is situated on thoroughfare (Rt 107). 2) I would think the the potential rental income derived per square foot from a property located on Hicksville Road should be much higher than a property located on Central Avenue. 3) Netting out of the transaction with a occupied space versus a cost encumbering empty building.
Some side effects that may be positive 1) Not paying for bus drivers to wait in line and fuel their vehicles in Levittown when they can do so at the Picken Facility. I would like to see an analysis of anticipated labor savings from the proposition. For instance, if we have 30 Drivers and they take 20 mins per day to fuel their vehicles and travel to Levittown and back. If that is done daily that would mean we spend on average 50 man hours per week in refueling and traveling time. By refueling at Picken would we be able to reduce staffing by a driver? I would like to know the anticipated labor savings. 2) PGSA may actually get to play games at the New Packard complex. In the past, this field was used exclusively by Non-Community based Baseball Organizations. This is a travesty while Girl's Softball is fighting for the little space they presently have. 3) TOB will invest in a Beautiful Parkland which will include two Ballfields. One being a 90' foot Baseball Diamond and the other as a 60' Baseball/Softball field. 4) TOB will secure the building and parks much better than the BOE is presently doing. Kids presently use all our Ballfields as their public Saloons. This I can attest to since we clean up the empty cases of beer at all the ballfields with our field crew.
I will respond back later with some of my concerns.
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Post by delilah on Mar 9, 2006 11:28:15 GMT -5
I want to thank Go Plainedge and others for the re-cap of last nights meeting. I work many weeknights Tue, Wed, Thurs nights are a must for me so its very hard for me to attend the meetings. Not so long ago, when my taxes were less my kids were smaller and they had meetings in the afternoon I was able to attend. Again I thank- you for the updates
On another note: I dug up some old BOE minutes from October 14, 2003. The minutes spell out the rules and restrictions of the Packard Capital Reserve Fund. I suggest we all re-read them and then ask again. What happened to that Money ?? What happened to the Packard Capital Reserve Fund of $990,000. Where is that money? If it was spent what was it spent on?
I think the school website goes back to 2003. Down-load a copy and lets discuss this matter. I feel it is important as we move forward to look as this because we could put this Fund to good use and save money on any bond issue or have more money for the Kids
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Post by gopybl on Mar 9, 2006 14:26:44 GMT -5
Ok....Here are some of the concerns I have regarding the potential transaction:
1) Do we have potential tenants lined up? If so, how much are they looking to spend per square foot? Will that square foot price generate a positive cash flow for the property?
2) How much investment will be needed by the district in order to make the property rentable? Where will these funds be allocated from?
3) If we derive profits from the renting of the picken property, how will the proceeds be spent? Will it be used as some kind of tax credit for the community?
4) The one time large cash payment received from the TOB...How will that be used?
5) Will the TOB retain their permitting authority and maintenance of the Picken Ball Fields? They said they would....Can we get it in writing?
If I think of any others I will let you know....Bottom line is we need a lot more information to make an educated decision regarding this property.
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Post by delilah on Mar 9, 2006 14:30:36 GMT -5
???This is what I have from my notes from BOE minutes Oct. 14 2003
The Board agreed to transfer $390,000 (Packard Fund) from the fund balance into the Repair Reserve Fund they established last school year. This action will require voter approval at our next election. A public hearing must be held five days prior to spending any of the money in the Repair Reserve Fund. Emergency spending is allowed but 50% must be repaid the following year and the remaining 50% the year after that.
At its height that fund was a full $990,000 what happened? (600,000 plus 390,000) What about paying back? 50% next year 50% year after? What did it Fix? When did we vote on it to be spent?
We can all learn from the answer to these questions and proceed to future projects wiser
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Post by Go Plainedge! on Mar 9, 2006 15:24:41 GMT -5
Sorry, this Module isn't active! [ Go Back ] How convenient!
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Post by justfacts on Mar 9, 2006 16:07:14 GMT -5
Go Plainedge!
Unfortunately the Module called "Minutes" is not available at the site. BUT - go to the other Board section and "snoop" a little and you will find the following:
************************************* Bulletin Board October 2003
The Bulletin Board
A Publication of the Plainedge Public Schools Board of Education
The following topics were discussed at the Oct. 14th and Oct. 16th School Board Meetings:
School Board Recognition Week - In honor of School Board Recognition Week in October, Dr. Richman presented the Board with a tapestry highlighting children’s rights, in appreciation for their work on behalf of the children of the community. The Banner will be prominently displayed in the Board Room as a reminder of the Board’s commitment to education.
Committee on Special Education Chairperson - Following a series of discussions, the Board approved the position of Chairperson of the Committee on Special Education, who will be responsible for chairing CSE meetings. The creation of the position allows the Director of Special Education to concentrate on improving the performance of special education students on State tests and working with teachers on instructional practices.
Construction Update - Mr. Burns announced that the middle school construction is progressing well. Approximately 25% of the modular classrooms have been delivered, two sides of the first floor are complete, and it is hoped that the gym will be enclosed before winter. The new transportation building, at the rear of Plainedge High School, will be completed within the next few weeks. The Board reviewed the color scheme for the High School auditorium, where renovations are underway and are expected to be finished before the end of January.
Field Trip Policy - The Board modified its policy on field trips stating that, “no overnight field trips will be allowed for students in grades K-8. However, under extraordinary circumstances an individual may be exempt from this criterion by the Superintendent.” Many opportunities exist locally for day trips, which can provide equally appropriate educational benefits for students.
Hazing Policy – The Board and administrators had a discussion about the Mepham H.S. issue and its indirect impact on Plainedge. Dr. Richman will investigate a Board policy on hazing and report back to the Board at its next meeting.
Repair Reserve Fund - The Board has agreed to transfer the remaining $390,000 from the “Packard Building Fund” to establish a Repair Reserve Fund, which will be used exclusively for the maintenance and repair of our buildings, including Packard. The transfer will appear in the 2004-2005 school budget and will become effective upon passage of the budget. At a previous meeting, the Board transferred the other $600,000 from this fund to the Capital Fund to cover the cost of air conditioning the new middle school. This money has been held in the district’s general fund balance since 1999 and is separate from the construction bond.
Budget Issues - The Board plans to solicit support from all Nassau/Suffolk School Boards for their resolution to not put a budget to its voters until Albany passes the state budget. School Board presidents will be asked to collectively sign one letter to be sent to the Legislature, and pass similar resolutions at their respective board meetings.
Parent Workshop – “Risky Business” – November 17 – 7:30 p.m. – High School Student Restaurant Plainedge’s Parent University will sponsor a workshop for parents entitled, “Risky Business,” concerning the growing problem of sexual activity among young people, on November 17, at 7:30 p.m. at the High School restaurant. The program is similar to a YES Community Counseling workshop held in neighboring districts. The Board previewed a portion of the video that will be shown at the workshop.
Copyright © by Plainedge School District All Right Reserved. Published on: 2003-11-10 (59 reads)
**********************************8
I hope this helps some find the facts for themselves.
From the Justfacts guy (with occasional opinions but no personal attacks)
Ed
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Post by delilah on Mar 9, 2006 17:04:04 GMT -5
facts man posted: "Repair Reserve Fund - The Board has agreed to transfer the remaining $390,000 from the “Packard Building Fund” to establish a Repair Reserve Fund, which will be used exclusively for the maintenance and repair of our buildings, including Packard. The transfer will appear in the 2004-2005 school budget and will become effective upon passage of the budget. At a previous meeting, the Board transferred the other $600,000 from this fund to the Capital Fund to cover the cost of air conditioning the new middle school. This money has been held in the district’s general fund balance since 1999 and is separate from the construction bond."
So $600,000 went to the middle school air conditioner? Why did'nt the Construction Bond pay for the air conditioner? The air conditioner was part of the construction of the New Middle School. When was there a hearing for this? Who allowed for the transfer of funds? Why did they touch that money when they had BOND MONEY?? Did'nt They say they had 1.1 million left over in Bond Money. Why don't they refund the PACKARD FUND.
If this is true this is a bizzard shell game of money shuffling, because the Bond money is very restricted, however the Packard Capital Fund was also restricted. We need to think about this... okay $600,000 for an air conditioner what about $390,000 that was left how did they unrestrict what was left? I know it's not Kosher but was any of this legal? Damm, facts man how do you get informantion?
I would love to hear from you Elphaba65, what do you know about this?
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Post by justfacts on Mar 10, 2006 8:08:50 GMT -5
Delilah
You wondered how I got my information.
Here's my secret - I hold on to the information mailed to me, or given out at meetings, that is supplied by the BOE.
I often scan it into electronic format on my home PC.
In addition, when I had seen meaningful info posted on the School District Web site, such as the minutes that were there last year, I download them and save them on my PC. I also did that with minutes from a few years ago (2001 -2) that were never updated on some of the individual school sites.
Also, I hunt out the various reports on the State Education Department and the Comptrollers sites. Many of these reports are entered by the District and never audited by the State - who uses the information as Gospel anyhow.
BUT - The information therein is easily changed by using the Superintendent's key code to enter altered data - so I especially download and save that data as it first appears, and as it is changed.
All of the is easy enough to do - and it makes a very interesting audit trail to separate fact from fiction. It was one of the ways I was able to find that there has been but 17, plus or minus two, Administrative positions in Plainedge for the past 9 years - despite claims made by some BOE members to the contrary.
Notice how that false fact has disappeared? And at the same time it revealed that Administrative salaries had risen 7.4% per year for the past 5 years. Not a bad set of raises, was it?
All this was from data suppied by the Administration to the State Education Department!
And, with PC storage space so inexpensive, I can back up all this info over my home network of several PCs so it is always availalable - never "going down" for weeks like the District site has done.
Ed.
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