What happened at the last Board Meeting?

[rinx]

I wouldn't brag about salaries and benefits coming out to over 50% of the budget for the library.
But hey, that's just me.

[elphaba65]

Rinx,

I think it's more like 68%, as I've said before, is there a more cost effective way to deliver library services?

[justfacts]

rinx, alphaba and others on this board;

Again, when you only abstractly think about something rather than do the research to be informed about the topic - your comments reflect what is lacking in your personal knowledge.

Rinx - just what would you brag about? Do you have any information as to what should be an ideal percentage? Please share it if you do have.

Elphaba - as you've often implied, there might be a more cost effective way to deliver library services.

Why don't you enlighten us all as to the present level of the Plainedge Library's cost effectiveness for this service - in comparison to any other Library if you choose - or to a definitive goal for cost effective service of the same quality and quantity? And please dimension the cost changes that would occur while showing how that may be done in detail.

To date, I've only seen suggestions made as to how some plan to severely curtail library services for the public at large and open up the issue of unlimited access to the school buildings by any member of the NY State public.

Those suggestions have been based on a less cost methodology - not a more cost effective methodology.

They have the disadvantage of providing much less services - maybe even down to the level of library service used by the few who have made the suggestions.[/b]

Just what is your "more cost effective goal"? Anything definitive that you'd care to share with the rest of us?

By the way - as to the proportion of salaries and benefits to the total budget - - - in a Service based operation those costs are a major portion of the budget, unlike a supermarket operation where the goods sold constitute a major portion of the budget.

For everyone's reference: The ratio of Salary and benefits to total budget for the Hicksville Public Library is 68.02%. Plainedge's ratio is equivalent at 67.56%

Do either one of you want to do the work of providing that budgetary comparison for all 54 libraries in Nassau and develop a chart of just where Plainedge ranks on the total list? (For whatever purpose that would satisfy)
I'm sure that there are some forum members who would like to see such a chart now that you've brought the subject up.

As has often been said - it is wiser to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool - rather than open your mouth and be proven a fool.

[rinx]

Someone is being a bit defensive and belligerent.
Tell me how many full time employees there are.
Just like I don't care for the comparisons to other districts, I don't care about your comparisons to other libraries. Worry about your own house before worrying about others.

[justfacts]

rinx

Seems like you don't have much to brag about - especially when you change your tune after getting relevant info about your first comment - and you now ask how many employees there are.

Let me give you the answer that you deserve to that question:

There are just enough employees - not one more than necessary nor one less than necessary. And the number changes as needs change.

Also - the last sentence of your last paragraph is so very pertinent - especially since this forum was set up to handle school budget issues!

Like - why, in the time of a contingency budget - when kids are washing cars to donate money to the school - is there still $20,600 on the Administration side of the budget for School District meeting refreshment and meals?

And why is there still unsupported receipts for $20,000 for meals and refreshments according to the Hevesie report? (That's but one of the nine deficiencies found by the Hevesie Audit about $73,729 in improperly documented Administrative and Board expenses)

Not that I'm being belligerent or defensive - just staying focused on: "Why can't the school's budget better reflect the wishes of the community and have more of their tax money go to Programs for the children?"

[rinx]

Justfacts, Gee, there are just enough employees, eh? This sounds like a Richman dodge. You complain about him and the board withholding information and here you are doing the same thing. You complain about them being nasty and you do the same thing.
Pot meet Mr. Kettle.

[elphaba65]

Rinx:

Pretty interesting, Just Facts wants to see administration cut in the school district, people who are shaping our kids futures, yet the library has just the right number of employees! Perhaps he needs to read their job descriptions.

"Why can't the school's budget better reflect the wishes of the community and have more of their tax money go to Programs for the children?"

Number 1 in Nassau county, are you saying that money is not going to educational programs for the kids?

Also, point on the audit, I believe the letter Dr. Richman wrote to the state is still on the school website , to once agin find out the whole truth please read it for the explanation . Also does anyone know if money was returned to the district from former Board members mentioned in the state and forensic audit?

Just Facts: Also - the last sentence of your last paragraph is so very pertinent - especially since this forum was set up to handle school budget issues!

Wasn't it you who started the Library thread?

[concerned]

In response to your question about the return of money, I asked this question last Spring. I believe the answer I was given was that too much time had elapsed and it would cost more legally to go after the money than the money that would ultimately be collected. I just recently deleted my e-mail in which this question had been answered, but, again, I do not believe they are doing anything formally. By the way, it wasn't just board members who spent money inappropriately.

[yruohk]

Thrown in the mix here, the Library, has nothing at all to do with the state of affairs within the school budget/programs/administrative or BOE duties/responsibilities. Since when does the districts BOE bylaws include policing the Library budget or structure? Since when do the budget cuts have anything to do with the library? Both are different entities and have no bearing on one another when it comes to financial output.

It seems there's a campaign to indoctrinate the community to an idea, out of some pea-brains, that bolsters ridding the community of a valuable and most used entity, the Library, and make people think that it's financially sound to do so and would "give more money to the children" so they can have their programs back. The financial wizards need to get rid of their egos and be serious about the welfare of the children of this community. And those who promote this notion do so to distract from the real issues: Management of school tax $$$$ going directly to the children in the most beneficial manner. Stay on track with the real issues. There is a challenge called lack of concentration and I would mention it if I could only remember???

[frawg88]

"justfacts"

I have to agree with "rinx - you are being belligerent, defensive, and nasty
And I also have to agree with "elphaba65" - you are being evasive and you are turning this school forum into your library forum. I believe a better place for you to share information about the public library is on your own website or in your own newsletter, neither of which has ever given very much detail about the library budget.

And to "yruohk"
You say that the library and the schools are different entities and have no bearing on one another but I beg to differ. If I'm not mistaken, the school district OWNS the public library building, it puts the library budget on their voting ballot in May and solely bears the cost of the voting machines & workers, it collects tax money for the library and borrows money for the library every year incurring all of the interest expense (with the exception of this year duly noted), and the tax levy for the library is included in our school tax bill. The "pea-brains" who have brought up the idea of closing the library know that, and know that they have a CHOICE of spending their money on a library or putting that money toward their children's school programs. I don't believe they are trying to indoctrinate the community... I believe they are considering their options. Based on "justfacts" reluctance to be questioned about the library just as he questions the schools, their idea may have more merit than I originally gave them credit for.

[yruohk]

frawg88 said:

"justfacts"

- you are being evasive and you are turning this school forum into your library forum. I believe a better place for you to share information about the public library is on your own website or in your own newsletter

And to "yruohk"
The "pea-brains" who have brought up the idea of closing the library know that, and know that they have a CHOICE of spending their money on a library or putting that money toward their children's school programs. I don't believe they are trying to indoctrinate the community... their idea may have more merit than I originally gave them credit for.

If you were involved with this forum from it's inception, then you would know who began using diversionary tactics, such as bringing up the library, to turn attention away from the reasons why the forum was begun. Censorship of the schools Community Forum birthed this forum.

As for "closing the library", what person in their sound mind would even consider such a move as has been given life by those few who probably don't even use the library? And I agree with you, they are not "trying" to indoctrinate they ARE indoctrinating those who allow themselves to be. The idea has no merit but certainly has "more" tax dollars on the horizon. The school district will probably spend triple the library budget to transform their "dream" into a nightmare! There must be something up someone's sleeve.

[justfacts]

Elphaba pointed me to "a point on the audit" which is still on the Plainedgeschools.org site. It concerned Dr. Richman's response letter to Hevisie's Audit. I found once again that the Audit team responded to Dr. Richman's letter as follows:


==============================================================================

"APPENDIX C
OSC COMMENTS TO THE PLAINEDGE UNION FREE SCHOOL DISTRICT

In response to concerns raised and observations made about our audit in the School District’s response
letter, we provide the following information:

Note 1
School District officials portrayed our examination several times as one designed to find evidence of misappropriation and misuse of public funds, and/or noncompliance with laws.

Since we did not uncover any misappropriated funds, or report any instances where they did not comply with laws, School District officials concluded in their letter that we found “no wrong doing” and requested that we report that the audit found the need for tighter processes, but nothing illegal or irresponsible.

The Comptroller’s office is conducting these audits in a cooperative, yet independent way to help restore public confidence in schools and to identify problems and mismanagement, where it exists. Our sole audit objective in Plainedge was to determine whether School District officials had established adequate internal controls over administrative expenses.

As detailed in this report, our audit disclosed that the Board of Education did not have an adequate claims audit function, nor did it provide adequate policy guidance in some areas. In addition, officials did not always comply with the School District’s existing policies, thereby weakening the internal control system already in place over administrative expenses. [/u]

While we considered fraud and noncompliance with significant laws when planning and conducting our fieldwork in accordance with generally accepted government auditing standards, the characterization that this was the primary purpose and scope of our audit is incorrect.[/u]

We disagree with School District officials that our report findings and recommendations mislead the reader or question the honesty and integrity of School District officials.

On the contrary, our report merely points out several internal control weaknesses and then recommends ways to improve operations. In addition, we believe that our report language matches the spirit of cooperation and independence pledged by the Comptroller, and expected by School District officials when they wrote that, “we anticipated that there may be procedural recommendations and that we would certainly welcome your suggestions.” School District officials even acknowledge in their letter that our recommendations are good business practices.

Therefore, we made no changes to our report letter because of these concerns."
==============================================================================


It would seem that Hevisie's Audit report stands as originally delivered and Dr. Richman's letter is adequately rebutted by the Audit team.

Fraud, or a Forensic Audit was not the objective of the Audit - just an audit to see if adequate controls were in place and used concerning Administative expensives.

They found several areas of weakness and recommended improvements be made.

I can include several other excerpts of the weaknesses that were found if there is a desire to keep this up - like the failure to supply adequate documentation for just two administrative expense areas;


==============================================================================
“School District Credit Cards” states that “the Superintendent and Deputy Superintendent did not attach itemized invoices or sale receipts to the credit card claims detailing charges for things such as hotels, airline fares and meals.”

We disagree that School District officials generally submitted signed receipts to detail and support the
credit card charges. We reviewed all of the credit card claims paid during our audit period and found only one receipt or invoice attached to the claims.

While School District officials then presented us with copies of hotel bills, airline ticket confirmations and invoices for about $6,100 of the $16,400 charged to the credit cards, they had not attached these supporting documents to the credit card claims reviewed and approved by the internal claims auditor.
==============================================================================


That leaves $10,300 in undocumented expense reports for those administrators, expense reports that were approved for payment by the Board.

Just how many car washes does that amount to?[/b]

Anyone want to continue along this thread? Or, can we accept that the present task is to move into the coming year quietly accepting the facts proven by this audit - - -

"Changes and improvements are needed (never mind on which side)"

so that the coming year provides a budget that the community will approve because it has faith and knowledge that it is the best budget possible?

[justfacts]

Yruohk and others:
On this thread frawg88 disagrees with you about who "owns" the library - after you pointed out that they are separate entities. Be asurred - you are correct.

According to their Charters which give the authority for being, the State Education Department has created two distinct charters with two distinct rules for operating.

What confuses some School District Board Trustees is that in 2001 they "discovered" that they, as part of their State defined duties, hold the Deed to the Library Building in their trust (They have been responsible for holding the deed since 1969!).

As pointed out by Library Trustees to their Assistant Supervisor during a meeting with the Library Board - the property they hold in trust belongs to the residents of the District.

At that time the Assistant Superintendent's incorrect allegation was that the Board, not the public "owned" the library and they could charge the library rent. (Every after more sources of money, aren't they?)

What is incorrect is the thought of charging "rent" (new added taxes) to the public for use of a property they have paid for through a bond issue and it is property they own!

The Board holds the Deed to the Building (not its contents which really makes it a Library) in trust for the School District residents[/size][/color] who own all the Buildings (both School and Library) and all the property within the Buildings in the School District! [/b][/i]

The School District Board's responsiblity is best defined in the following excerpt from the Authority that has created and empowered the School District Board, as they also have created and empowered the separate Library Board of Trustees:
==============================================================================

Board of Regents
The University of the State of New York

The University of the State of New York (USNY), created by the Legislature in 1784, includes: • all elementary, secondary and postsecondary educational institutions, both public and private • libraries • museums • historical societies and •other educational institutions that have been incorporated by the Regents or the Legislature or have been admitted to membership by the Regents.

As a trustee or board member, you have assumed an oversight role with your institution’s service to the community, which includes protecting the public interest. This is a very important role because, as a trustee or board member, you and your colleagues are responsible for the overall direction, operation, assets and fiscal well-being of your institution. The assets of the institution are held in trust for the people of the State with trustees/board members acting as fiduciaries. [/b]

As a volunteer, you must be willing to donate the time and attention to ensure that senior managers are fulfilling the institution’s charter and/or legislative mandate. Presented below are fundamental questions that trustees/board members need to ask and revisit continuously to ensure they are fulfilling their role in a responsible manner.
==============================================================================

The full text of the Regent's statement to Trustees can be found at this site:

www.regents.nysed.gov/statement.html

It has many infomative statements that anyone might find interesting! There are such pertinent statements as:
==============================================================================
Trustees/board members should be cautious about relying completely on the guidance and judgment of the institution’s CEO and management. Members have ultimate responsibility for governance of the institution’s resources and their primary role of protecting the public interest.

In monitoring the institution’s budget, board members should ask questions about the assumptions made in preparing the budget. What types of data were used to prepare the budget? How are estimates developed for such expenditures as payroll, supplies and materials, travel and conferences, capital outlays, etc.? Are accounting and/or management processes adequate to ensure accurate and reliable data? What will be accomplished by passing this budget? How will outcomes be measured, evaluated and reported? How will the board hold the CEO accountable for budget outcomes? How are variances from expectations handled?
==============================================================================

[justfacts]

Yruohk and others on this forum;
Yruohk - you had a response from frawg88 on this forum with some information about the Plainedge Public Library. Here is a reproduction of what frawg88 said, with added details and information about the issues frawg88 raised. I hope this helps you to better understand the State Education Department's differing requirements for these two different entities chartered by the State.

frawg88 wrote;
If I'm not mistaken,

1) the school district OWNS the public library building,
(Not true - The residents do - The Deed is held in trust by the School District Board as required by the State Education Department (SED))

2) it puts the library budget on their voting ballot in May
(True, as requested by Library Trustees and as required to do so by the SED)

3) and solely bears the cost of the voting machines & workers,
(True, because the Library Trustees decided at their discretion, to not have a separate Library vote to save taxpayers the cost - if they did request a separate library vote they then are liable for the costs which are passed on to the taxpayers through the Library budget. If the Library Trustees decide to have a concurrent budget vote, or even if they do not have a budget vote, the School District passes all voting costs directly on to the taxpayer as part of their own Budget as they are required to do so by the SED)

4) it collects tax money for the library
(Not true, the School District Board LEVIES an amount of tax to be collected for the library, whether the Library had a vote or not, as the School District is required to do so by the SED - it is the Town of Oyster Bay that COLLECTS the tax and segregates amounts for the Library and the School)

5) and borrows money for the library every year incurring all of the interest expense (with the exception of this year duly noted),
(True, as required to do so by the SED and reinforced by the Opinion 98-28 by the State Comptroller)

The Comptroller's Opinion 98-28 which also refers to: Education Law, §2021[21]; Real Property Tax Law, §1318) and quotes: "it should, consistent with the statutory obligation to fund the library appropriation, pay a portion of these funds to the library to assure its ability to operate until tax revenues are received (1977 Opns St Comp No. 77-770, unreported)".

Also as part of that Opinion, there is this quote: "Since tax anticipation notes are obligations of the school district, however, interest thereon is a charge for which the school district, and not the library, is liable (Opn No. 62-978, supra). We are aware of no authority for the school district to charge to the library a portion of the interest expense."

But what also should be noted for this year is that the TAN interest money is already collected in Budget Code #9760 (at $300,000, up from $165,000 last year) The Library's TAN interest of about $27,000 should be removed from this account code - or the School District will have double dipped into the taxpayer's pocket for this money. See Board member's e-mail acknowledging and amplifying on this fact)

Here's what the board member said when she stated in an e-mail to Joe Chaloupka: "Therefore, the money allocated in the Debt Service line of the 2005-2006 budget for this anticipated interest can either be used to pay for programs for children or not be spent at all."

6) and the tax levy for the library is included in our school tax bill.
(True, as a separate line item. Library Funds are separately levied, are collected as separate line items, are put into segregated account and are accounted for by the District treasurer - all as required by the SED)

I hope that these further details provide better insight about how the two entities are to work together according to the rules and laws set down by the State and the SED.

At the bottom line of all these rules it is the single fact that the taxpayers pays for it all, and owns it all. The Library Trustees and the School District Trustees who serve on the School Board, have taken an oath to protect the public's interest these two separatly chartered entities - the Public's Schools and the Public's Library.