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Post by rinx on Apr 19, 2006 13:06:52 GMT -5
Very well stated facts. This us against them stuff being said by people preaching unity is the pot calling the kettle black. The only US is the ENTIRE COMMUNITY. Even the no voters. Many of whom have been here long before others and will be here well after most of the newcommers have long gone on to bigger and better places. I won't cast aspersions on people I don't know or whose shoes I do not walk in. We need EVERYONE to pull together now and vote yes and vote CPR. Then ALL of US can work with a new BOE to really be ABOUT ALL THE KIDS. Not for BOE members to get their spouses jobs or for BOE members getting trained on our dime for positions outside the district as has been done in recently. The focus should always be on OUR KIDS....PERIOD! We need to make sure the me first mentality of BOE members doesn't come back once they're gone.
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Post by justfacts on Apr 19, 2006 13:37:09 GMT -5
hey rinx I have a Board meeting tonight, otherwise I'd suggest getting together over a cup of coffee. If you came to the meeting, we could go out afterwards. I'd like to thank you for spotting the "your with me or your against me" faction and divide that is being set up unknowingly and unintentionaly by some. We need no more of that.And your obviously know of some of the inner deals worked out between Board members and staff - the type of thing that leads to warping of purpose and less than ethical behavior by Board members. I wouldn't even let my sons try out for Page positions at the Library when they were of age - much to their chagrin! One thing can be said for previous Board members however - they have given us a fine example of what not to be! - especially important for future Board members. It is sad that some, while well intentioned, hadn't the foggiest idea as to how to improve their performance and live up to their responsibilities as Board members. One in particular, blamed past Superintendents because she did not know what salary they made! Little did she know that she told us all, she did not know that it is the Board that determines that! And she didn't know enough in all her years on the Board to ask! Sad! I wonder what else passed under her nose that she was unaware of?If you can, I'd enjoy meeting you at a local diner in what's left of this week. Day or evening I can make it. 5126-249-9308. Offer is open to others as well. Ed. On to the real task , the only task at hand - making Education better for the Children of Plainedge!
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Post by gopybl on Apr 19, 2006 14:24:22 GMT -5
Rinx - You and I are gonna have to agree to disagree on this one....The NO Voters had their opportunity to be supportive of the community during the budget workshops...They had an opportunity to voice their concerns and frustrations regarding this budget to the very people who were creating it....THE BOE & The rest of the community. I am sure their input at that time may have prooved invaluable.
If you remember the budget workshops....You would be remember that either none of that group showed up....or they didn't speak up...Either way they missed their opportunity to contribute their input to this budget and make it OUR budget.
NOW is not the time for input or debate....That time has passed....The Community is making an effort to mobilize EVERYONE to support this budget.....Unfortunately, if the NO Voters don't mobilize with US (The VOTE YES Team)....Then they are hurting everyones children in this community. The lack of support from them will be the DIVISIVE force. Not our efforts to mobilize everyone.
I for one will not sit idlely by and allow this group to hurt our children and the educational process we have in place. Just because you have resided in this area for 20 years, does not provide you with a license to be unsupportive of the Children or the educational system we have in place. Some of these people conveniently forget that there was a group of people in front of them that also paid School taxes and educated their children. Contrarily, for those who are just moving in....They MUST be supportive to protect their investments.
If this alienates or makes the NO VOTERS feel uncomfortable or unhappy....Good. Now they know how those kids felt washing cars all summer long.
Jump on Board.....The VOTE YES TRAIN it's rolling down Hicksville Road....
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Post by devilsrus on Apr 19, 2006 18:58:35 GMT -5
Sorry Rinx, the "us" is not the entire community. The entire community did not vote YES the last time. The entire community will not vote YES this time. It sounds like you still have an axe to grind with people who are no longer on the BOE. C'mon Rinx name names; don't leave allegations out there. "Facts" you took a position that prevented even the appearrance of impropiety; excellent. Cronyism or nepotism are long recognized forms of misuse of the public trust. Rinx, again, dont just throw out, to this point, unsubstaniated allegations of misconduct. If we as a community are to trim the fat then have either the courage of your convictions or proof. If you have neither, please help US with the process of getting the vote out.Its about breathing the fresh air of a new BOE and community working together. And not just the vote. Thats not enough. Sorry "Facts", to inform is one thing; to lobby is another As previously stated you have made many arguments in favor of a yes vote. That you care deeply for your community cannot be questioned. But it is not enough to just hand out the information. Once diseminated it must be prosleytized. It is not enough to say " I told you so!". You have an influtenial voice. This is a forward looking group of people. A group who did not take NO for an answer. WE are committed to the task at hand. You have worked long and hard to right budget wrongs, now and in the past. The time is now. Now is the time of commitment. Now is the time to encourage people to act on the research that you have painstakingly sought out and preserved. Now is the time to speak to your contempoaries. To encourage a YES vote. You stand as an individual, and you clearly take pride in your stance. No problem. We are all individuals. This might be a nexus where a group of people of divergent viewpoints can come together. Lets leave the past behind; it can't be fixed. The future can. educating the Children of Plainedge Requires Cooperation from Persistent Residents,old and new. CPR
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Post by gopybl on Apr 19, 2006 20:25:04 GMT -5
Devilsrus - Way to go man!!! I couldn't have said it better myself.
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Post by devilsrus on Apr 19, 2006 20:44:57 GMT -5
Thanks Go! The no vote brings nothing to the table. Its a tired old rehash of...taxes are too high, they have plenty of money, who cares its going to pass anyway. First taxes are high.... here and everywhere else. That is not going to change.....here or anywhere else. Second...... they DONT have plenty of money, allocation of the available funds is a big part of OUR YES campaign. Third.....check last year. The budget will pass because a sleeping electorate is beginning to wake-up. First the signs, then the meeting tomorrow, next more signs and visits to bus stops and games. The people that desire to keep this a vibrant, forward looking and progressive community will continue to press for a YES vote. And will advise, consent and dissent with the BOE to form a cohesive policy.....AFTER THE BUDGET IS PASSED. Cotinueing Plainedge Resolve Contrives Positive Results. CPR!
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Post by rinx on Apr 19, 2006 22:26:53 GMT -5
Yeah, I do have an axe to grind. People who put themselves first instead of the children I have a problem with. People that "tell" instead of listening to what the community wants and needs I have a problem with. God gave people 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason. AND the problem last year wasn't the no voters entirely. It was the BOE's lack of listening to those voters that said re-do it. They didn't... presto...austerity. Tell me who should get blamed? The BOE could have prevented the whole fiasco by utilizing the fund balance. Did they? Richman blabbed about getting only x amount from the state when right on the states website it stated how much we received. Funny how the states number was higher than his. Is it a wonder there are some people around here that get upset with the bs? All that said we will have a BOE that listens and informs.
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Post by gopybl on Apr 20, 2006 5:54:30 GMT -5
Rinx - We finally agree about something on here....Scary huh! Your right the problem wasn't ONLY the NO VOTERS last year....We all share a little of the responsibility for last year. We all could have been more involved. We all could have went to the budget workshops and meetings to express our concerns. Unfortunately, WE didn't do that.....That's who is to blame, EVERYONE who lives in this community who wasn't involved pre-austerity.
This year is completely different. WE are more involved than ever before. WE are mobilizing like never before. WE are communicating with our neighbors to explain the negatives and the benefits of passing this budget. WE have learned from our mistakes. Check that, MOST of us have learned from our mistakes of the past. WE know long term effective change can only come from within the BOE....Thats where C_P_R_ comes in.
Now is not the time for waffling or double talk. Now is the time for this COMMUNITY to take a stance. Now is the time for US to get involved and get this community educated so we can pass this budget first time out of the box. Will the NO Voters be upset....of course they will. Will the NO VOTERS feel like no one is listening to them....of course they will....Will they complain about our signs and other marketing materials....Of course they will....Sorry, but we can not help that. TOO BAD.
RINX & FACTS, hopefully the two of you will be part of that solution....We could use the help. THE KIDS could use the HELP.
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Post by devilsrus on Apr 20, 2006 6:46:54 GMT -5
Excellent re-statement of what happened last year " Go". There were people at the last meetings last year when the inner circle and the outer circle were explained. In fact the BOE listened to a community that said cut nothing, the budget will pass. Could a slightly pared down version of the budget have been presented? Maybe. It wasn't. Next. Could we have mobilized more people? Maybe. We didn't. Next. Instead of starting fires and obfuscating the challenge in front us, Rinx, perhaps we'll hear from you tonight to understand the role that you are willing to play in getting the job done this year. Re-kindling old misunderstandings and inflaming old news serves no purpose. It is counter-productive to the job at hand and serves only to confuse the issue. There is already a wealth of misinformation out there that needs to be clarified. OUR cause would be far better served if you would concentrate your abilities in moving forward, rather than looking back in bitterness and anger. We all share part of the blame. Now we can all share in being part of the solution. The vote no faction of people chose not to be informed. We chose to listen, speak and be part of the process. As a result a budget was drawn up that reflected the economic realities. Lets pool our energies to getting it passed.
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Post by patriot2415 on Apr 20, 2006 7:50:24 GMT -5
No. we don't want to pay more real estate taxes. They're high enough. I think we can all agree at least on that one thing. No one in Plainedge wants to pay more or higher real estate taxes. It hurts.
But the place to make the case of taxes being too high is by filing a tax protest and appealing any adverse decision giving the reasons why you feel the value of your house is not as stated in the tax rolls, not by voting down the school budget. We as a community, and to widen that all of LI need to hold our representatives in Albany accountable for the inequity of state aid. We all know that further review needs to be completed of the salary structure and bonus payouts not only of the administration but of the teachers.
We all do like, however, the thought that the value of our houses has increased. And the astronomical assessed valuations that have been assigned to Plainedge properties prove that hypothesis. One reason why the values of our houses are as high as they are is because of the quality of the Plainedge schools. Many people, including ourselves, have sacrificed to come to Plainedge primarily because of the schools. That fact makes Plainedge desirable to so many young families. Let's not change that.
Notwithstanding our dislike for paying taxes, or our thoughts on compensation, we cannot take that feeling out on our schools and our children. Please vote yes to support our children, our community and our schools on Tuesday, May 16.
Thanks particularly to those of you who are on fixed incomes, who may have no children in school right now but who may remember the days when they did, or to the younger families who look forward to that day. Thank you for realizing that a yes vote is the right thing.
Please say "Yes" to the Plainedge youth and to the schools on Tuesday, May 16.
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Post by justfacts on Apr 20, 2006 8:58:50 GMT -5
A few things I remember; That neighbor on one side of me probably voted the opposite way to me last year. (50%/50% split) That neighbor on either side of me most likely has no children in the School system. (33%/67% split) That neighbor next to me, and the one next to them, paid the same property tax for school as I did. (100%/100% split) I don't have the foggiest idea of what it really should cost to provide a poor, a mediocre, or an excellent education for a child in Plainedge.I do have an idea, in comparison to other School districts, that Plainedge is neither the worst of the lot nor the best of the lot when it comes to overall costs for a school district.[/i] I do have an idea that we in Plainedge can do our job better when it comes to overseeing the cost vs performance for educating the children of the District. We each, and we collectively, come up with very good ideas and provocative questions about doing that better job. I do have the feeling that we too readilly tend to "knock" our neighbors viewpoint when he is not vigorously aboard our own particular bandwagon. We, unfairly, too often refer to that neighbor in derogatory terms - and thus alienate them, dividing our District. We have a tendency not to stand shoulder to shoulder - but more towards Us against Them. (What ever happened to that good old American expression: "I don't agree with what you say, but I'll fight to my death to defend your right to say it!"?)I do remember that it is each one of us that has, at one time or another, "sat on our butt" and found excuses to not participate in the process of controlling and monitoring the schools - and not voting. It is a lot of us that have changed our ways and are now doing what we should have been doing. Will we continue to do so?But I also remember that, no matter how many "committed" drop outs occur between now and August, when a tax is levied to pay whatever the cost of education will be this year; there will be enough active people left in conjunction with a revitalized BOE, to see that the education system in Plainedge does the best it can for the children. I remember these things and then think about - there is much to look forward to in this coming year and much work left ahead in the years after that.
Maybe some of that work will solve my main puzzle - what does it truly cost to give the children of Plainedge the education they will need for their future? Today, no one can answer that question. There is hope that tommorrow will provide that answer.[/i] Ed On to the real task , the only task at hand - making Education better for the Children of Plainedge!
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Post by thewildrover on Apr 20, 2006 12:36:25 GMT -5
(What ever happened to that good old American expression: "I don't agree with what you say, but I'll fight to my death to defend your right to say it!"?)Ed, Didn't I say something like that in one of my last post's ??
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Post by gopybl on Apr 20, 2006 13:53:16 GMT -5
Wild -- Yes you did say that in a previous post.
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Post by justfacts on Apr 20, 2006 16:45:39 GMT -5
Two posts were made after my "A few things I remember post" There was nothing in that directed at either author of those posts - but one either was defensive, or of the nature of "Hey! I sad that first". The other reaffirmed the first and added follow up support.
Also, in the earlier posts there was questioning about why I don't come right out and say "Vote YES!"[/b] In this post I'll try to show how WE might all be guilty of making "Us'n & Them'n" statements inadvertently and to knock the other persons decisions without realizing it. I"ll also answer as to why I won't tell someone else how to vote on the Budget. So bear with me a while. *************************************************Some statements made by a third person directly after one was made about respecting another's opinion: [There is no intent here other than to illustrate that WE do tend to "knock" our neighbors viewpoint too often. And I apologize in advance to the creator of these words I have used to illustrate the point. Please forgive me for selecting your words. I might have found other posts that show the same thing. I do not mean to single you out - but I do know from your many posts that you and I have walked the same path long enough to remain friendly after I use your comments to show how we can inadvertently "knock" our neighbors viewpoints.]Comment 1: "Most people in the community have very little info or insight to make an educated decision before they vote. Of course this is primarily due to everyones crazy schedules and lack of time to attend the previous budget meetings. So the majority of the population is looking to members like US to educate them. The ones who feel they do have SOME info are many times walking into the polling booth with MISINFORMATION. This is where we should be coming into play...."This statement says that it is the other guy has very little insight (into our viewpoint) because they voted differently from us. So it is up to US to educate them - since they vote on MISINFORMATION. Maybe their viewpoint is the it is US that has the MISINFORMATION and it is WE that do not make an educated decision before WE vote. It could be that they differ from because they may be weighting facts from another viewpoint, another knowledge base! The positive part or the statement "Most people in the community have very little info of insight . . . ." is a rather self-serving opinion unsupported by any survey or study. A pole or study might reveal that although a lot of people might agree with that statement, few would agree that it applied to them. This would leave us with a tautology. Many believe they have all the necessary info, but few think that is true for everyone else. And the part that says "the majority of the population is looking for members like US to educate them" (i.e.; Vote OUR way). How do we know that? Did they ask us? Isn't that a bit of self serving nonsense about OUR superiority of knowledge? One that shows very little respect for the other persons knowledge - as flawed, or as superior, it might be to our own! Comment 2: "Obviously you must see the merits of getting this budget passed and beginning the healing process for the Plainedge School District...So I then ask you, why wouldn't you want to communicate that message to your fellow neighbors so they understand what is at risk here? Instead of just telling them to vote...."This is a statement that says the other guy "doesn't understand" when it might be also true that it is we "that don't understand them" The solution proposed is for another person (myself) to tell them to vote the way we do. And you say it is "obvious I must see the merits of getting this budget passed" Why? I have not stated so. Nor have I stated how I will Vote on this Budget, either YES or NO. Nor will I tell anyone how to Vote on this Budget, either YES or NO. ***********************************************Now here is why I don't tell anyone else to vote one specific way or the other:There really is no ability on my part to convince anyone else about how they should vote. I do not walk in their shoes, nor do I know, or share, the circumstances of their life well enough to make that decision for them! The impact on their lives of this expensive vote is of major consequence to many of them! They are the ones, and the only ones, that can make that decision.
No one else is entitled to make that decison for them.
I do know this however, they have, and will live with the consequences of that vote upon their lives - even if it did not reflect the way they voted. Because that is what they have pledged to do - abide by the majority decision, even if it ends up being a majority of one.************************************************Ed. On to the real task , the only task at hand - making Education better for the Children of Plainedge!
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Post by thewildrover on Apr 20, 2006 17:49:07 GMT -5
Facts, Was not being defensive, It was very much leaning towards the "hey, didnt I just say something "great american" like?
Was looking to grasp a chance at immortality!
And...........was looking to lighten the mood.
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