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Post by gopybl on May 5, 2006 6:07:07 GMT -5
Facts - I understand what your saying.....But everyone in the room the last night of the budget hearings knew the budget increase number was set at 10.55% after Mr. Presuto & Mr. Raymond saved the rest of the Varsity Sports program. Thats where the additional money for Interscholastic Programs came from....This saved the Senior Years for Volleyball, Track & Field, Bowling & many other sports that do not have youth groups to speak on their behalf. I am pretty certain we discussed these additional items in previous posts....Let me know if you need additional info.
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Post by justfacts on May 5, 2006 6:59:48 GMT -5
gopyblThere was, and is, no value judgment made on my part as to the last budget change - either up or down. I did not participate in it. If a change is made in a $60 Million budget, of let's say of $100,000 on the last night, that $100,000 change or increase might be the best dollars spent in the whole darn budget!
I have a very pragmatic attitude towards those types of "adjustments" I try to look at what do they get me. Many a time I've added dollars to an established budget at the end of the negotiations - just because they were dollars well spent!Keep up your good inputs on this site! Ed. Let's get a budget! And let's make sure the children get their fair share!
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Post by delilah on May 5, 2006 7:24:22 GMT -5
Goodmorning to All (smell the coffee)
As I drink my morning coffee and read the posts, something has come to my mind with great clarity:
If the Admimstration has not put out a bonafide "BUDGET" and I mean the real 3-part state required doument; How do you know what's really going on?
Okay now just think before you all jump at me! The kids can still have my 10.55 or 10.6% or whatever they need.
In the budget (that no one has seen) there _may_ be huge money transfers that will get the "Okay" with the yes vote.
Things about Packard and Picken are what concern me.
Things you might not want to happen, however, as long as the bottom line stays the same you will not notice the transfer untill a later date.
I am absolutely committed to whatever the kids need. All the more reason to view the real Budget. We all deserve this and it is our right by law.
Do not tell me to refocus on just getting the budget passed. I want to see this years budget in three parts on the Web like last year and I want in now! Its overdue
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Post by thewildrover on May 5, 2006 8:26:48 GMT -5
D, I think i can help you enjoy your coffee a little more and perhaps rest your mind with regards to the Packard/Picken issue. As per the agreement with the T.O.B that was discussed at the community meeting to address this property transfer, it would require a separate community vote and the rep. from the T.O.B. stated clearly that the town would widely publicize any and all transaction details with this regard. It was also stated that this would not be done until sometime in the late summer.
I do have the faith in our Town officials to do the right thing that I do not have in the business offices at our administration.
I personally thought that even bringing up the topic of trading some land for some blankets and beads at a time when the formulation of a fair and reasonable budget should have been at the forefront of everyones priority list, was foolhardy at best.
As for seeing the 3 part budget as in past years...I agree...If it should be made available, make it available.
Facts, Absolutely loved your "lever" analogy, it was right on target.
VOTE YES FOR OUR CHILDREN VOTE YES FOR THE BRIGHTLY LIT FUTURE OF PLAINEDGE
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Post by justfacts on May 5, 2006 8:50:40 GMT -5
delilahWelcome back! As usual, a very insightful comment. Too bad you felt the need to defend an adult question and request of wanting to see the actual budget that everyone's extolling all to vote but one particular way when they vote. As has often been said - "The Devil is in the Details" and this Administration has not supplied the details as they were obligated to do by law.
They transferred the $600,000 of the Packard Fund buried in those details. And they attempted to transfer the remaining part of that Million dollar fund the same way last year - but failed! Now, part of that Million dollar former Packard fund is lost to the children forever. REMINDER: It is not a fact that those who want to see the Budget are of a different mind-set than those that extol there is but one way to vote. It is that there is an legal obligation that has not been complied with to supply a full and complete budget to the Public several days prior to this date - and it has not been complied with.There is no REVENUES portion of the Budget shown. How can anyone be assured that the $1 Million part of the extra funds left over last year WILL be used to "Reduce the tax Levy" unless that promise is reduced to writing and publication? Why the reluctance to publish this commitment?[/i] There is no publication of the Salaries at a level over $104 Thousand as required by law. There is no publication of the School District Report Card as required by Law. In short, there is no publication of the 2006/7 District Budget as required by Law.When are the NAY or YEA sayers going to go after the delinquents - rather than the messengers?Ed. There are TWO tasks in the Voting Booth this year! A vote on the passing of the Budget - - - and a (S)election of three key members to the BOE. Make the choice on each issue with both your head and your hand!
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Post by justfacts on May 5, 2006 9:47:26 GMT -5
wildrover;There are laws and regulations for the Administration to comply with. But this Administration, from the Secretary's contract onward to the Voter approved Budget of 2004/5, has shown an indifference to obeying those laws. EXAMPLE: Where due notice should be given and community discussions held five days prior (to the Transfer of funds from one Capital Project to spend for another purpose) are required - no such action went into the transfer of the Packard Funds. That money bought an air conditioner for the new school instead. The Administration said (to itself) the Budget YES vote also included an approval to transfer these funds. This is contrary to the requirement for a separate discussion and referendum on the issue by the community. The Administration "sneaked" the Packard vote through - as it tried to do with the remaining Packard Funds this past year! Look at the wording in the minutes below - it shows they knew what should be done - but used devious means to get there! The Budget of that year that was mailed to each house falsely showed the $600,000 was going to "Reduce the Property tax RATE"! It wasn't used that way - and no community discussion was held as required! Nor was there a separate vote on this issue by itself! The Administration even used the mails to lie to us! Back to topic: You express faith that the Town is more trustworthy than this administration when it comes to the discussed actions of swapping Picken for Packard. As far as the combining of issues into one vote - there is ample evidence that the Administration will do this at the drop of a hat. It shows disdain for the voter and their knowledge of the process. As far as I can caution - that may be the intent of this Administration on the Picken-Packard swap! Get the community approval under the cover of this present budget - then proceed without further concern. This is despite what the Town will do! The Administration will point to voter approval of the act when they approved the 2006/7 Budget!!! Don't believe this is possible? Then what about this excerpt from the Minutes of a recent meeting:************************************************"Dr. Richman updated the Board on his discussions with the Town of Oyster Bay on the exchange of properties – Packard for Picken and a cash settlement. Our architect, Weidersum Associates, is doing a building condition study and a mechanical and structural analysis is being conducted as well. EPA concerns will also be investigated and addressed. ( NOTE: WORK is authorized and under way! Now, just where did those funds of unknown amount come from? Donations?) The Town of Oyster Bay is having these same studies conducted on the Sylvia Packard School building. It is hoped that a decision can be made on this issue by the end of the month. A referendum asking for voters approval will be part of the budget/election vote on May 16th, 2006.[/i] ( NOTE: Exactly the same words used before the $600,000 transfer motion to buy the Air Conditioner! Anybody remember the discussions before the vote?) Various scenarios for use of the Picken building were also discussed. Negotiations on the use of fields is ongoing. The Town also indicated they may be interested in buying some of the furniture at Packard." *******************************************NOTE: I'll take a bet that one of the "scenarios" for the use of Picken is to provide a new expanded site for the Administration Offices to be located on Hicksville Road. An expressed desire of Richmand's for a few years. It would seem to be the real "need" behind the transfer - and consequent new BOND issues. Ed. Let's get rid of those that would send money to the Bankers (Capital part of Budget is 20 cents on every dollar) before they send it to the Children! (Programs part of Budget is 70 cents on every dollar)
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Post by delilah on May 5, 2006 10:45:58 GMT -5
facts posted:
{There is no REVENUES portion of the Budget shown. How can anyone be assured that the $1 Million part of the extra funds left over last year WILL be used to "Reduce the tax Levy" unless that promise is reduced to writing and publication? Why the reluctance to publish this commitment?
There is no publication of the Salaries at a level over $104 Thousand as required by law. There is no publication of the School District Report Card as required by Law. In short, there is no publication of the 2006/7 District Budget as required by Law.}
Folks, All I am saying is we are trying very hard to get this budget passed, lets be 100% informed and know what's in this "Budget". There is a reason that the Law requires certain items to be included in the presentation of a School Budget. I want a 100% up front budget in writing and so should we all.
Wild, thanks for the info. It helps to know that you feel the town (TOB) has integrity. But honestly, how can you have another Vote Yes meeting without knowing the whole story?
Has anyone seen the NYS required Budget document as required by law? If so, please post it ~ it would be a great help.
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Post by thewildrover on May 5, 2006 11:22:09 GMT -5
D,
WE have been planning this whole thing for weeks and weeks, it has been based on OUR involment in the budget process. There are so many people working so hard on so many different committees all working towards the same goal.
The same way they worked together at the budget meetings and hearings.
And I will ask this again:
Whats the alternative and what are the consequences?.
What has the potential for more disaster?
The budget passing or not passing?
Where should our energies be focused??
WE have a plan, WE have been nothing but successful since the beginning of organizing and galvanizing this community.
The fact that WE were able to pressure Albany for additional $ (WE would not have gotten that with out the community pressure) shows that this is a community in action.
And WE were able, through OUR involvement, to convince the BOE to apply this $ against the tax levy, not additional spending!
WE expect to accelerate OUR efforts.
Remember it was the community that was at the BOE meetings and were part of the process that gave this budget what amounts to a standing ovation when it was ratified
And that applause was for this reason and this reason only............
IT WAS FAIR AND REASONABLE!!!!
WE were part of the process and now is no time for back peddling and second-guessing!!!
So much hard work and effort has been put into getting to the POSITIVE place we are at right at this moment...
The paramount concern???
WE should all worry about the ramifications of what happens if this budget doesn’t pass, period amen.
Everything else is a distraction, IMO!
VOTE YES FOR OUR CHILDREN VOTE YES FOR THE BRIGHTLY LIT FUTURE OF PLAINEDGE
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Post by momma3 on May 5, 2006 11:42:18 GMT -5
Delilah, I agree with you 100% The budget passing and the budget being public knowledge is two separate issues. Why on earth would we go to the polls and vote yes to later come realize the budget agreed upon was changed behind our backs. Why isn't anyone else concerned about. Is it that we all are so confident in our BOE that we would never question they would change anything to hurt our children? ? Please, when you have something to hide you hide it!! Yes, we all agree the budget must pass but the issue is we are entitled to see exactly what that budget means. To vote blindly could be more detrimental to this community than a no vote! Delilah, thanks for opening my eyes on a few things going on around here that is not kosher.
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Post by delilah on May 5, 2006 11:42:47 GMT -5
Yes, Yes and Yes I understand weeks and weeks of work.
We are entitled to the 100% State Mandated Budget we have been waiting ever so patiently for, since the Budget Hearing.
It is the "Closer" of all your hard work it is the signed on the dotted line... fruit of our labor. How can we proceed with 100% confidence about the topic without the deal in writing?
"Fool me once shame on you Fool me twice....
Wild, I don't want to argue with a good guy like you.
I want the BUDGET on the dam WEB PAGE TODAY so I can bust my butt and sell this budget with 100% security that we are not going to get screwed for some soon to be mentioned Packard plan to be implemented "with voter approval" in 06-07
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Post by justfacts on May 5, 2006 12:18:23 GMT -5
thewildroverPlease - PLEASE! Your enthusiasm and sincerity are very apparent - as is your singular goal. But step back a moment from what you are posting and examine it real close with less of an impassioned look. You have posted some statements of untruth in your last post!I, and I hope we all, recognize your passion - but don't let it ruin your credibility! You are beginning to sound like some of the past BOE supporters that made claims that were not true. With the following claims you went overboard. You and others may have had a "spit-in-the-wind" impact on the Legislator's increase in the Pataki Spending - but you can in no way claim you made that happen as a force or power of your own, or of this one community's, efforts. Those number changes were under way long before you even became aware of them - or even the process of how State Aid is determined."The fact that WE were able to pressure Albany for additional $ (WE would not have gotten that with out the community pressure) shows that this is a community in action.
And WE were able, through OUR involvement, to convince the BOE to apply this $ against the tax levy, not additional spending!"Additionally - the BOE has little choice about where the State Aid goes out when it's spent as a Budget item - the Aid is provided for specific budget items, not willy-nilly spending! It isn't used to spend more money somewhere else - just for a limited set of items. State Aid money coming in is entered into the Revenue side of the Budget. ALL State Aid has always been provided with the intent to reduce the burden of the Property Tax Levy! This has been true since it was first granted - probably long before you were born!If, very early in the budget process, the District was aware of the actual amount of State Aid to be finally given, they might be able to gamble on that aid being there - and expand their spending plans to the edge of the limits they guess the community would put up with. But that planning occurred long before any of the community entered into the act - and their guess then was hardly impacted by an unknown event that the Legislators would boost Pataki by about $1 Million! If they were aware of it this year, I'd bet we'd be facing a $7 Million increase in spending! It is a nice feeling to go around claiming this or that happened because of me - but that claim had better be backed by some factual deeds. Like it or not, our community actions had very little impact, if any, on State Aid or distribution of those funds into their approved accounting codes. Pardon the cold shower - but please stay away from the techniques used previously by some Board members least you begin to do other things like them! Ed. Someday our dreams for a better School and District will come true! Especially if we pull the right Four Levers on May 16th! Least anyone forget ~ IT is at least FOUR levers we have to pull on that date! NOT JUSY ONE!
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Post by justfacts on May 5, 2006 12:50:16 GMT -5
momma3
It is a wise person that want's to "read the contract" before they will sign it! (Pull the lever)
A shill always shouts: "What's the matter, don't you trust me? SIGN IT!"
I respect your wiseness.
Ed.
P.S. The "other budget", with its 3.35% spending increase, has been mailed to the homes a month ago. Its Budget hearing night is at the Library - held an hour earlier than the "Meet Your Candidate Night". Come on down to the Library at 7pm on Monday the 8th. And then off to the Candidate meeting.
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Post by thewildrover on May 5, 2006 14:32:25 GMT -5
Ed,
Fair enough...any untruths that were stated were not included to spread any malicious untruths...they were lets say.....uninformed untruths.......and I take your knowledge of the system and continue on with my studies of school boards 101....I appreciate your Facts as always.....
Also.........Please dont ever compare me with those shills......ever.
I think i have earned at least that respect.
D, I have made a call to a BOE member to advise them to get the info on the schools web site.....pronto
I kinda like being labeled as "passionate" ..lol
VOTE YES FOR OUR CHILDREN VOTE YES FOR THE BRIGHTLY LIT FUTURE OF PLAINEDGE.
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Post by Go Plainedge! on May 5, 2006 14:47:24 GMT -5
Wild:
You da man!
I had a great analogy all set, and now that you posted that, I can't use it.
I'll save it for a rainy day. ;D
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Post by justfacts on May 5, 2006 17:02:21 GMT -5
wildroverThat's what I wanted to caution you against! It is really too easy to begin that slide down the slippery slope of that some prior Board members took! I can see how, in defense of some effort that one had put onto volunteer work on the Board, one might get "aggressively defensive" without realizing the voters had valid points. Also, as a Trustee I know that it can be hard to step back from the malarkey an Administrator is shoving at you - unless you keep in tight contact with the Community.But consider this - I did not compare you to those shills - I just said - Oops! - Careful where you walk, there is a gapping pit over there!Let's both take some of the School Board Lessons 101 together in these coming years. My hardest thing to learn is that, despite appearances and proclamations to the contrary, there are few outside your own District (in Albany and elsewhere) that are willing to actually help you! If Plainedge wants the District to be fixed - there ain't no Long Ranger out there! - we will have to do it ourselves!The most remarkable thing about all that - is we do have the skills and talents to be able to do that! The real question is - will we do it - or talk about it?Like here is something WE should have done something about a week or more ago - but have not! WE sat on out butts instead!FROM THE BUDGET RULE BOOK: The budget must be complete and available upon request to residents within the district seven days before the budget hearing. The board of education, as part of the notice of the annual meeting referred to in part B. of this section, must give notice that district residents may obtain a copy of the budget, and provide time and place where budgets will be available.
The budget hearing is Tuesday the 9th It is now Friday the 5th and we have not had a budget "complete and available" The wording in the Rule Book says "Must be complete and Available"What have we done about this? Sat around like the passive dolts and naive fools that we are. The earliest the District now can put something out is on the 8th! That's one day before the Budget hearing! I don't know about the rest of you - but with me that doesn't sit well! "Must be out SEVEN DAYS before" - and the best we'll be able to do is get it ONE DAY before! I'm tired of the Administration telling us - "Screw you - you Jerry Springer crowd! You and the rules don't matter - I'm doing what I want and you'll take it. Lump it or leave!"[/i] Ed. Someday our dreams for a better School and District will come true! Especially if we pull the right Four Levers on May 16th! Least anyone forget ~ IT is at least FOUR levers we have to pull on that date! NOT JUST ONE!
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