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Post by honebee on Sept 28, 2005 7:41:58 GMT -5
You know, I remember last year after the first budget was voted down that Dr. Richman stated that the community should email him and the BOE and make suggestions as to how they can trim the budget to get it passed. I for one emailed him with some concerns and suggestions as I know many other people in the community did as well. Every suggestion was shot down. Instead of explanations, I received an email from Dr. Richman defending the budget and suggesting that if the budget were voted down people would leave the community and "undesireables" could very well move in. To me, that sounded like some kind of threat. If I don't go along with the program you try scare tactics to get what you want? Not only do I think that is unprofessional, I also think it causes people to become very negative about the administration and the BOE. We need to pass budgets that are mindful of everyone in the community and what we can afford as opposed to what is unreasonable. Twelve percent is unreasonable, if that's what they think they are getting. It's a shame to have to play games like this in order to get the bottom line amounts to approve. We need to work together, not aline ourselves on two sides of the fence. That's what brings anger and dissention. The administration and the BOE have to work for the community, not against it.
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Post by justfacts on Sept 28, 2005 9:22:22 GMT -5
In the last few posts on this topic there seems to be a clear statement of past budget problems that can be readily solved for this coming year. If we are wise enough to cooperatively do so.
Issue one: School Board members stating that now enough residents become involved with the budget before the first vote and are too uninformed about the real costs, thus making unrealizable cost cutting suggestions during the second vote hearings.
Issue two: Residents who are dissatisfied with the budget at the few meetings they can speak at, and those who reject the first vote so that the budget can be "readjusted" to their needs for the second vote. Suggestions that the Board seems not willing to implement.
Well, if our present budget setting process doesn't work - then we need to fix the process - not fight each other using the same defective process!
Maybe, just maybe, there is something or things that can be added or changed to make the system work better. Among all of us that are concerned, we should be able to agree on one or two things that can make the system work better. We have several months in which to do so.
And if one or two "fixes" don't work, we can try others.
One suggested fix: I, for one, recognize that meetings held at certain times on the school grounds, can not be attended by many of the residents who work and/or have other commitments during those few hours each month. I would like to see the meetings supplemented.
As Techie has often suggested, we could take a page out of the "Meet your Candidates Night" video recording, and make those more formal Board Budget hearings available to the residents at at time of their own choosing. They would not be "left out of the process" and would be better informed of budget issues earlier in the process.
That added process of video recording Budget hearings and making them available on the Internet, allows the Board information to be more widely available to the public. It would reduce one of the problems stated by the Board.
Another suggested fix: A public Forum site expressly for public input, reviewing and commenting about budget items in question, or their suggestions for improvement, would also go a long way toward involving the public in depth.
It is a wise person that at least hears out opinions or suggestions from others, for one never knows where an insightful improvement may come from.
Responses to each suggestion, whether pro or con, should than be made in an open forum such as this one.
This serves a two fold purpose; it reduces the number of duplicated suggestions, while showing and recording the reasoning behind each budget choice in greater detail.
As an example (and not an item to be defended or debated in this context) - last year I was concerned with a budget decision that I though should be revisited. Because of prior experiences with my inputs to the Board, and the negative impact they had upon the Board's dealings with the library (because, although I speak as an individual, the response has been as if the library was speaking) I felt I could not make the following observation about budget cost savings:
Laptop computers in the School libraries did not seem to be a wise choice. The prior year's buy of these laptops proved them to be fragile - in that several students has said that at least half were not usable in a short time.
Since laptops cost 3 to 5 times as much as a desktop, cannot easily be "repaired" by buying a new keyboard or mouse (which may be the non-working part) and there seems to be little need for a portable item when desktop space would seem to be available in a fixed library location, why can't desktop PC be bought instead of laptops. The cost savings and better availability of desktops throughout the school year, would seem to make them a better choice than laptops.
Every resident who has PC experience, and there are quite a few of them in Plainedge, would make that choice. What was the Board's reason for not making the same choice? There might be a very valid one, one that if this question had a method to be asked, recorded and responded to, the community might have been better satisfied with the Board's choice. The resident's confidence in the Board's decision might have been better.
And that, it seems, is what can happen with every such question residents might have. We have the time to put in place this type of review, recording and broadcasting of Budget choices such that the system can be approves and resident's information and involvement in the Budget process be made better.
Why not try adding to the system to make it better?
Add Internet access to video recordings of budget meeting hearings and and a public Budget Forum Q&A site. These two changes look like they might help to improve the system.
What are your suggested fixes?
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Post by concerned on Sept 28, 2005 10:31:17 GMT -5
I think consistently we are all saying the same thing. We want to have the opportunity to give input to the board and admin. and feel that the ideas are not just heard, but used where suitable. Again, the common thread seems to be that no one feels this is happening.
I hope some BOE and Admin. read these posts and come up with their own topics for discussion at the next board meeting.
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Post by elphaba65 on Sept 28, 2005 13:56:08 GMT -5
Just Facts
Laptop computers in the School libraries did not seem to be a wise choice. The prior year's buy of these laptops proved them to be fragile - in that several students has said that at least half were not usable in a short time.
Once again, had you attended meetings you would know the reason for this. They took up less space allowing the tables to be available for different activites. The lap tops could also be moved to classrooms allowing additional use for the students. Teachers could have lessons without bringing his/her students to the library. Another suggested fix: A public Forum site expressly for public input, reviewing and commenting about budget items in question, or their suggestions for improvement, would also go a long way toward involving the public in depth.
Why, so you and other people who like to distort information have a place to put it?
Add Internet access to video recordings of budget meeting hearings and and a public Budget Forum Q&A site. These two changes look like they might help to improve the system.
I would like to see all meetings videotaped, this way the community could see how some of it's members act publically and will also hear all the facts. If you remember, there was a most commonly asked question site on the District web site last year. I think it was a good idea and I didn't hear anyone say that it was not going to be available again this year.
Concerned:
There was a citizens advisory group several years ago. I think it is a good idea however it is a huge time commitment and to many people don't even seem to have time to go to two meetings a month for information. If there is one formed, I would want the members to have knowlege of all the programs therefore voting not only on the cost of a program but what it delivers educationally. I would not like to see a program cut because of the cost if it is delivering a sound educational program. For a committee to have knowledge of all programs and how a budget is actually put together I would guess that the group needs to form now and probably meet one - two times weekly. Then you run into the time issue, day or night? Who facilitaes and so on.
You also mentioned information on the state website that was not accurate and why someone from the district did not monitor it . I to would love to see all the info accurate and clear, however do not forget that there have been many clerical cuts over the past few years. Not an excuse but a probable reason, I think so.
The biggest problem I see and have seen over the years are people who have their own agenda and distribute inaccurate or misleading facts throughout the community. My solution? we as a community have to challenge these people. Remember last year the "unofficial minutes"? When you compared them to the school districts minutes there were many things left off, especially test scores and many other positive things happening in our schools. We need to work together to be able to say yes to a responsible budget that is fair to the taxpayer and provides the education that our kids deserve. As a community we voted no (straw vote) for the BOE to look into consolidation. We lost the two hospitals that were our major revenue source. A few years ago this impacted us by a loss of I think 2 mil tax dollars. A reality- we do not have commercial property in Plainedge. There are few ways to generate dollars, the Packard building and perhaps the library site if it is placed on the ballot and passed by the community. Other than that there is no new creative way to generate additional revenue.
I agree with Frg88, one vote only. I do not want to see the BOE inflate a budget only to decrease it. In my eyes they will have no credibility.
BTW YRUOHK and JUST FACTS- any answers to my questions?
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Post by concerned on Sept 28, 2005 14:17:29 GMT -5
Elphaba-Maybe the advisory board is worth trying again! I know it is disheartening to not have on-going support with these types of committees. But, things change and maybe people will really make the commitment now in light of how things stand.
Thanks.
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Post by elphaba65 on Sept 28, 2005 20:43:22 GMT -5
Concerned,
I agree, I guess someone would have to approach Dr. Richman with the suggestion. I hope you are right that more people will make a commitment now. If a committee also stood behind the budget maybe the community wouldn't view it the way it does. I still don't get it, school government is like any other govt. organization. There can not be 14000 people making decisions. We elect Board members ( or should) for how they represent us. It would be nice to see more people at meet the candidte night also, and I would like to see it in a different format. I think there should be debates.
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Post by concerned on Sept 28, 2005 21:37:37 GMT -5
Elphaba-You are right about the format of "Meet the Candidate" night. It was really not very productive last year. I'm not sure where the rules/format come from...do you? There should definitely be some level of debate. We did get the chance to ask questions, but poor Pat Zinky. Because she was running unopposed, she never got to say a word. What about all the people who would have just liked to get to know where she stood on various issues.
I think we have a lot of ideas that could be brought forth at the next board meeting or directly to Dr. Richman. I hope other people speak up as well. Again, another problem is that only a core group of people do speak up - until budget time. That, I will agree, is very frustrating.
With regard to the election of the board, don't forget the one thing the community keeps seeing and commenting on, is that it never appears there is any discussion or dissention among the board members. I know things get discussed by phone, by e-mail, and at Tuesday work sessions, but I think the community overall needs to hear some of the discussion that ultimately leads to the board members all voting the way they do. It ends up looking at the Thursday meetings like everything is just one big rubber stamp.....I'm not saying that is how it truly is, but the perception is out there.
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Post by frawg88 on Sept 29, 2005 15:41:48 GMT -5
"concerned" I just noticed this message poted on the website (looks like a different approach):
"Due to conflicts with a very busy fall calendar and the Jewish holidays, the first community coffee hour of the year will be held on NOVEMBER 14TH at Schwarting Elementary School beginning at 7:00 PM. The topic is "The Budget." There will be no formal presentation. In place of that, the evening will be devoted to a conversation among community members, board members and the central administration. The purpose is to hear the perspective of this year's budget defeat from all parties and to begin to formulate a plan for the next year. In addition, time will be set aside to discuss strategies for influencing the budget process on the State level. Please be sure to mark this date on your calendars now. If you would like to submit questions ahead of time, please e-mail John Richman, Superintendent of Schools, at jrichman@plainedgeschools.org. " read more...
If you go to the website home page and click on "read more", you'll find a link that will let you send the notice to a friend. How about we all do that and tell each friend to pass it on to other friends. Then people will have 6 weeks to formulate their questions or suggestions, and make arrangements to attend the coffee hour. (Get babysitters, leave work a little early, etc.)
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Post by frawg88 on Sept 29, 2005 15:47:37 GMT -5
"just facts"
In response to your posting "Some things are obvious"
“just facts”
The budget meeting dates have not even been announced yet and you are already saying they are inconvenient for you and the community to attend? This just reinforces my argument that the community does not make enough effort to get information. Do you schedule your library board meetings at everyone else’s convenience? Don’t the dates/times have to suit the schedules of those running the meetings and making the decisions (or voting) on the organization’s business? People haven’t had any trouble making it to the meetings at Joe Pappalardo’s Pizzeria EVERY Tuesday night, so who are we kidding here? If the topic is important enough to them, people will rearrange their schedules or take an earlier train to get there.
Also, I have to again state my skepticism about the validity of “facts” given about our schools in this forum by those without children in the schools. If you had any personal interaction with the schools, or if you attended the opening tour of the new middle school, or if you attended school board meetings you would know all about the computers. The old concept of technology in Plainedge meant that there was one computer in each classroom, and our kids would go to the computer room maybe once a week to do “computer activities” with a computer teacher, usually scheduled during their regular teacher’s prep period. But now enrollment has gotten so high that classroom space is limited, so the computer rooms have been taken over for classroom instruction. Also, 1 There is no room in a classroom to have desktop computers for every child – laptops are portable and do not permanently take up space in a room 2 The buildings have wireless internet connectivity, so laptops make any classroom or library a computer room 3 You don’t need to hire computer teachers because every teacher can utilize laptops for their lessons 4 Most importantly, the NY State Standards require that technology be integrated into classroom instruction, therefore children must use computers as a tool for learning their curriculum, not just as a separate activity. I don’t know whose children you are talking to but mine has not told me they can’t use the computers.
Also, you obviously have issues with employee salaries, because you spend a lot of time on that topic. I’m not saying you should or shouldn’t but remember that the BOE negotiates salaries, and the community elects the BOE members and gives them the authority to do that. If you are not happy with the job your elected representatives are doing, then you have the option to elect someone else and give that person the authority. If that’s not acceptable, you can run yourself and be one of the seven votes. But, if you think coming to a few budget meetings a year is inconvenient, then you obviously wouldn’t have enough time or commitment to be a serious school board member.
By the way, I agree with whoever said that only people who own a home and pay taxes should be school board members. I’ll go one step further and say that school board members should also have children in school so that they know how their decisions affect the children as well as the taxpayers.
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Post by concerned on Sept 29, 2005 21:53:41 GMT -5
Frawg88-Thanks for the information about the meeting. No, I did not know it had been posted. I hope Dr. Richman sends it out to everyone via his massive e-mail list. I too will share it and it made me feel better to think that somehow we can begin to talk about things early. So, bravo to Dr. Richman and the BOE.
I think it would be great if you created a new thread and just repost your message so that it doesn't get lost in all this other information.
I guess I should check our web site again. Since it was down for so long, I have not looked at it. Again, thanks for bringing it to our attention.
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Post by yruohk on Sept 30, 2005 1:45:10 GMT -5
By the way, I agree with whoever said that only people who own a home and pay taxes should be school board members. I’ll go one step further and say that school board members should also have children in school so that they know how their decisions affect the children as well as the taxpayers. Do you also agree that only those who have children in school and own homes should only be allowed to vote? How about Senior citizens? Are they allowed to vote for those who run for the Board? If not, then they would not have to pay school tax. What about 18 year olds, can they vote to elect board members? If no, then their parents should be able to deduct a portion of taxes for the non-voting members of their household, right? What is the criteria for voting for school board members? What is the criteria for voting for any issue regarding the school? Are you suggesting we discriminate against some and not the others when it comes to voting? What are the rules for voting in this district? Are they the same for voting for any level of govt.? Age? Residency? Landownership? Stocks? Bonds? Race? Sex? Religion? Ethnicity? Where do we draw the line? If one cannot run for the board if they rent, then the tenants landlord should be relieved of paying the school taxes as their vote wouldn't count? Lots of questions to resolve who should and shouldn't be "allowed" to run for the board. Looks like this could be an entire issue in itself and we would be back at square one with the voting issues. How about Superintendents? Should they be required to live in the district? And other school personnel? Afterall, wouldn't that secure true commitment to serve in the best interest of our children? Hmmm, maybe this last suggestion should be entertained and considered. Community residents who have children in school and are home owners and pay taxes would be the only ones allowed to vote AND to be employed as school administrators and personnel. Anyone who doesn't fit this category would not have to pay taxes?? A good majority of this community just might be relieved of paying the taxes for school. Then those who have children can pay the taxes and vote the children's parents for the board and hire parents for school administrators and personnel and the rest of the community will save much. BTW....the renters, where do their children go to school? Plainedge? Guess so but they couldn't have any say in their childrens schooling?
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Post by irishman on Sept 30, 2005 2:46:07 GMT -5
Tish,Tish,Tish my dear Yruohk.
Why do ye intellectually challenge the intellectually challenged National Socialist Party member of our Forum?
'Tis a pity that he/she is what she/he is without you be trying to make him/her see what she/he is! Have ye no compassion for the poor beastie?
No wonder so many ideas from the community, which are foreign to his/her own thoughts, are rejected out of hand by her/him!
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Post by Go Plainedge! on Sept 30, 2005 9:35:13 GMT -5
Hmmm, before you know it we'll be told how old our car should be to be allowed to live in this community.
ooops! That already happened.
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Post by frawg88 on Sept 30, 2005 15:45:20 GMT -5
To “yruohk”
Allow me to respond to your last post with an excerpt from “Go Plainedge” post of Sept. 17th :
“ …. what makes this forum unique is that we all have different views/opinions and stand firmly in our beliefs…”
“ I like to believe that come next May the community, administration and BOE will be better educated and the district will be victorious in the long run… “
I was giving my OPINION of school board member qualifications, not voter qualifications, however, I’ll be happy to answer your 28 questions to me after you provide the long awaited response to my one question to you.
To “irishman”
Some of us on this forum are attempting to contribute something productive to effectuate a better outcome of the next budget vote. How about you and “yruohk” giving us a demonstration of your superior intellect by doing the same, or is name-calling the most intelligent thing we can expect from you?
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Post by techie on Sept 30, 2005 17:51:45 GMT -5
frawg88The dates for the Budget meetings have been listed on the "Official" Plainedge site. www.plainedgeschools.orgThese dates have been posted for a while. To all else;I think the point that "justfacts" was trying to make is one similar to one I had posted some time ago in this forum. That is the Board Meetings could be made more accessible to a larger part of the community if they are put on the Plainedge web site. Also, there have been questions about the posting of the Board Minutes (or lack thereof). In order to keep our community more informed it would be beneficial to post the Minutes within the 14 day period. The minutes do not have to be approved before the posting. In looking at many other school districts here on Long Island and even across the country, the style and depth of the minutes could be made A LOT more informative. Before anyone says this would be too much added work, pleases let me remind you all of the idea to Web Cast the Board meetings. This would give a more complete video record of the meeting to add to the Minutes.
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